What Car Has Never Had A Bad Year?

"twinturbobmw" (twinturbobmw) 11/01/2013 at 20:25 • Filed to: None

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When you think of Ford Mustang big 5.0 V8s and burnouts come to mind. But what about that time called the 70s where the mustang, well, sucked? Remember the II? Even a V8 and some stickers would make it even remotely desirable. The Mustang just became a badge on a terrible car.

But what about cars that have never been bad? For instance, BMW has never made a bad M3. Sure some might say the E36 was the worst, but that was really just down to styling and the fact that BMW wouldn't import the more powerful version to the US. Every M3 since the E30 was a great driving piece of german machinery. Same goes for the 911. I suppose it hit its weakest point during the 996 era where everyone was complaining about the loss of air cooled engine. However, could you call the 996 a bad car?

Also, I apologize for not posting very often.

Victorious Secret > twinturbobmw 11/01/2013 at 20:29

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Pagani has never made a bad car.

Manuél Ferrari > twinturbobmw 11/01/2013 at 20:31

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The early non-Turbo 996 models truly were bad cars. Their engines were prone to premature failure. But Porsche did address that around the mid point of the 996 production.

You can see this reflected in the prices today. Not only do people not like the styling of the pre-facelift 996 (some people don't even like the face lifted one, but I don't mind it), people are worried about engine failure. I've seen early 996 cars without too many miles on them selling for under $20K. You know a 911 is bad when it sells for the price of a new Elantra

Nibby > twinturbobmw 11/01/2013 at 20:32

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Ford F150

PRBot II > twinturbobmw 11/01/2013 at 20:35

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Miata?

Manuél Ferrari > Manuél Ferrari 11/01/2013 at 20:35

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Examples of what I was talking about:

Car with engine that hasn't blown yet for under $20K:

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/…

Car whose engine has already blown (what is up with the bonnet?):

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/…

offroadkarter > twinturbobmw 11/01/2013 at 20:37

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To be fair, the Mustang II sold REALLY REALLY well, it was the right car for the era that kept it going into the fox body days. But yes I know I'm not a fan of them either.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > Manuél Ferrari 11/01/2013 at 20:38

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.. Erm, you sure you're in the right topic?

twinturbobmw > PRBot II 11/01/2013 at 20:39

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dogisbadob > twinturbobmw 11/01/2013 at 20:39

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Does it still have to be in production? How about the Nissan Maxima?

If not, Honda Prelude. Does the Dodge Challenger count even though there was a break in between?

Wasn't the E36 M3 we got not too far off from the Euro version? Supposedly the difference was only like a tenth to 60 mph. And much less expensive to maintain.

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > twinturbobmw 11/01/2013 at 20:40

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Sold so well without a bad year Mexico had it until 2003.

feather-throttle-not-hair > twinturbobmw 11/01/2013 at 20:40

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Pretty sure this is the low point in Nissan Z production. Or the high point. Depending on your perspective. So uh, that's something.

Blondude > twinturbobmw 11/01/2013 at 20:40

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I believe a 5 year production run qualifies it.

feather-throttle-not-hair > dogisbadob 11/01/2013 at 20:42

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Early preludes were supposedly really underpowered, I remember car and driver dubbing them the "Honda Quaalude."

BUUUUT i think they look super awesome. And despite that i irrationally like them quite a bit.

twinturbobmw > dogisbadob 11/01/2013 at 20:43

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http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthre…

The Euro spec ones had a different engine, a 3.0 with 286hp, then modified to around 320 in 97. The US spec only got 240hp.

EL_ULY > twinturbobmw 11/01/2013 at 20:44

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Skyline
Supra
other things :]

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > twinturbobmw 11/01/2013 at 20:45

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Ford GT.

Sparf > feather-throttle-not-hair 11/01/2013 at 20:45

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WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THAT'S THE BEST CAR IN THE WORLD

I'd say the Z33 is at least also a low point. If not on paper then looks-wise. The Z34 is hardly any better but still an improvement none the less.

dogisbadob > feather-throttle-not-hair 11/01/2013 at 20:47

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Yeah, but weren't all cars underpowered back then (79-82)? especially Japanese cars!

And underpowered =/= bad (except maybe muscle cars which were all about power)

feather-throttle-not-hair > Sparf 11/01/2013 at 20:48

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"this was the low point in nissan Z production"

hmmm...Sparf is gonna hate me. Plus Black Gold is super awesome and the best commercial of all time.

"Or the high point"

Manuél Ferrari > Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura 11/01/2013 at 20:48

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I thought it was on-topic. He asked if the 911 has ever had a bad year. IMO it has. So I think it can't be considered as one of the models that's never had a bad year.

Manuél Ferrari > Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura 11/01/2013 at 20:50

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Your choice has to be the winner.

feather-throttle-not-hair > dogisbadob 11/01/2013 at 20:51

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Truth. Plus, they're genuinely good looking IMHO.

So you win the argument!

Sparf > feather-throttle-not-hair 11/01/2013 at 20:51

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Seriously though the S130 was generally pretty awful (the 2+2 N/A is an ugly boat, for instance), so the unpopularity is pretty well-deserved. I just really like the 2 seater (which Europe never got) a lot and the Turbo was actually pretty damn good (it was even briefly among the fastest production cars in the world).

feather-throttle-not-hair > Sparf 11/01/2013 at 20:52

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Well, i really brought up the Z car because it's "lowest point" was still pretty great

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > Manuél Ferrari 11/01/2013 at 20:53

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Except the topic is which car has never HAD a bad year.

dogisbadob > twinturbobmw 11/01/2013 at 20:54

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Yeah I know THAT, but the actual performance wasn't that different! Not having to rev as high probably helps with that.

At least we were spared the SMG until the E46 though; supposedly the E36's SMG was even worse!

Sparf > feather-throttle-not-hair 11/01/2013 at 20:55

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If you think about it most low points are that way.

Manuél Ferrari > Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura 11/01/2013 at 20:55

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I know. I wasn't nominating it for the winner. I was just answering his question: "However, could you call the 996 a bad car?". I couldn't come up with a good answer for the winner, so all I could do was exclude the super beetle :) Your nomination of the original beetle wins in my book. No other car was built for as long without having any truly bad years (as far as I know)

offroadkarter > EL_ULY 11/01/2013 at 21:00

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Oh the skyline definitely had a bad year, or years, its when it became the infiniti G35

GhostZ > twinturbobmw 11/01/2013 at 21:26

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The Z.

The first series 240Zs were absurdly light and basically race cars. (And in the case of the Z432, they were) The second series cars were more refined with the long-term issues fixed. These were great cars.

The 260z brought along some more displacement to meet emissions and fuel requirements without dropping power. It was a one-year stopgap before standards set in place that required the 280Z.

The 280Z gained in refinement and reliability what it lost in the added weight of the federal mandated bumpers. It now had a great 5-speed too, the same B/W unit from the fox body mustangs.

The 280zx had the most powerful engine ever produced in Japan at the time. The car's top speed was so high with the L28ET that it was not allowed sale in Japan, and only the US got the high-powered version. The turbo car was faster in a straight line than a Ferrari 308 . This was in 1981.

The 300zx z31 had a drag coefficient of .29. It had, once again, one of (if not the) most powerful engines made in Japan at the time, but now with significantly slippier aerodynamics. It was the fastest car out of Japan, again. It's official top speed, in 1984, was 153 mph. The engine was highly tunable, and with the simple addition of an intercooler (oh yeah, I forgot to mention, it achieved 153mph with an non-intercooled turbo motor ) they are known to break 165mph comfortably. This was in 1984.

The 300ZX was the first car to be designed entirely by computer . It used a Cray Supercomputer to create it. It was the " first car to break the gentleman's agreement" of 276HP at 300HP. The R32 came out afterwards. The Supra Mk. IV was still 3 years away. It had 4 wheel steering and an electronically controlled differential . This was in 1989.

The worst years were, of course, the years between the Z32 and the Z33.

The 350z maybe would be considered the worst Zs, but it was still a damn good car. It wasn't legendary but it was good.

The 370z got lighter, faster, sharper, and better than the 350z, reverting back to a short wheelbase, and had some cool things like the first computer controlled Rev-maching downshift feature.

So, in summation, no bad years.

GhostZ > feather-throttle-not-hair 11/01/2013 at 21:28

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The turbo S130 was the fastest car out of Japan, with the most powerful Japanese engine ever put in a production car at that time, and was faster in a straight line than a Ferrari 308.

HammerheadFistpunch > twinturbobmw 11/01/2013 at 21:34

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How about land cruiser? Over 50 years of US production and, well, there hasn't been a bad one. Some better than others but none bad. Aside from brand loyalty ribbing fromland rover/Jeep types, you'd be hard pressed to find much negativity from anyone

Victorious Secret > Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura 11/01/2013 at 21:43

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Umm....00-05 Porsche 911s were pretty fucking horrible with the IMS issues requiring engine replacements for 911 owners and Boxster owners alike.

The only way to avoid such issues was to pony up for a Metzger equipped Turbo, GT3 or GT2 and thats kinda lame.

So yea, the 996 had some pretty awful years.

HammerheadFistpunch > twinturbobmw 11/01/2013 at 23:07

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Land cruiser?

Im not aware of a bad one in over 60 years. Some were better than others, but none did their intended task poorly, or didn't live up to the name

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > Victorious Secret 11/01/2013 at 23:33

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.... I give up. People love to steer away from the topic.

feather-throttle-not-hair > GhostZ 11/02/2013 at 01:22

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yeah I was more referring to the basic 280ZX, as many consider it the low point of Z production, I just had to post black gold because it's so awesome.

Also, despite being the "low point" I still think 280ZX's are pretty cool.

GhostZ > feather-throttle-not-hair 11/02/2013 at 02:01

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Even the base 280zx was an impressive car. For 1979 it had basically better handling than anything that didn't come from Europe that year. They're definitely making a bit of a comeback (along with the Z31) though. I don't think prices will ever skyrocket like they did with 80s 911s, simply because they made so many of them, but they're getting to be quite desirable.

Saf1 > Victorious Secret 11/11/2013 at 07:16

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Nobody/very few would ever call a Zonda ugly, but the Huayra is revolting! I just cannot believe Pagani made the car look like a beached whale with those tacky rear lights. Although tbf most people seem to love the car, I just can't get over how it looks. Slightly related, Lambo never made a bad Diablo! ;D It's true that there were constant improvements but they were minor and mostly performance increases, also when they were having their one-make at La Sarthe all 40 cars finished without major problems which is pretty impressive from an Italian super

OtizzyStarBai > GhostZ 11/11/2013 at 15:01

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new ones are fat, ugly, and bloated looking. Heavy, and t he interior looks like it was made by recycling old rubber maid trash cans.

I guess thats all subjective... but personally I think the 350z was a low point. 370 was somewhat of an improvement.. but not enough.

GhostZ > OtizzyStarBai 11/11/2013 at 18:10

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I like the looks of the 350Z and 370z better than all but the Z32 and S30. The 350z was also the largest (and most comfortable) of all of them. They maintained the same comfort of the 300zx (and more), kept 90% of the performance, but dropped the price significantly .

They were different cars, that was for sure, but they weren't bad . It's like comparing a FWD Celica to an older RWD one. Yeah, the FWD ones weren't ideal, but they were actually still pretty good cars.